Thursday, May 7, 2009
Audio Link
In the column on the right, above the painting of Plato and Aristotle, is the audio link that I put in the earlier post. Try it out.
Epicureans, Stoics, Skeptics, and Cynics
Chapter 5 in the book is a a good one, and addresses what we started the group for. That chapter is 'From Greeks to Gospel.' But we haven't covered chapter 4 yet, and there are a few things to say about that.
In the opening paragraph Brown mentions "...the interaction of Greek and Jewish culture and religion which provided the milieu for the rise of Christianity." We have talked about that, and the next chapter elaborates the point. On page 54 in the section of Stoicism he says, "...Zeus, the universal Word or 'logos' which sustains all things." I don't think it is a coincidence that John starts the book of John, "In the beginning was the 'logos', and the 'logos' was with God, and the 'logos' was God."
Chuck and I had a talk recently about that word 'logos'. We can talk more about this later, but I think that language (words) is more fundamental to reality than numbers. That seems counter-intuitive today when everything seems to boil down to math and science. And there are certainly some similarities between language and mathematical equations. But they aren't the same. I think there is a reason the Bible doesn't say, "In the beginning was the equation for the unified theory, and the equation for the unified theory was with God, and the equation for the unified theory was God."
On page 59 we see a link between empiricism and skepticism. I think this is interesting because David Hume, in the 18th century, was an empiricist and a skeptic as well. I think the two things go hand in hand. Modern science is closely tied to empiricism, and a certain type of skepticism, too. David Hume, and others like him, have not exactly furthered God's kingdom. As for science, there is a lot of good in science, but it definitely needs a little more humility. It's purported claims upon reality are much more grandiose than what is warranted. In that audio link in the previous post, JP Moreland talks about Hume and his effect upon our modern world.
I'd like to hear any comments anyone has about that. When I know more about my July schedule I'll let you know, and we'll try to set up another meeting.
In the opening paragraph Brown mentions "...the interaction of Greek and Jewish culture and religion which provided the milieu for the rise of Christianity." We have talked about that, and the next chapter elaborates the point. On page 54 in the section of Stoicism he says, "...Zeus, the universal Word or 'logos' which sustains all things." I don't think it is a coincidence that John starts the book of John, "In the beginning was the 'logos', and the 'logos' was with God, and the 'logos' was God."
Chuck and I had a talk recently about that word 'logos'. We can talk more about this later, but I think that language (words) is more fundamental to reality than numbers. That seems counter-intuitive today when everything seems to boil down to math and science. And there are certainly some similarities between language and mathematical equations. But they aren't the same. I think there is a reason the Bible doesn't say, "In the beginning was the equation for the unified theory, and the equation for the unified theory was with God, and the equation for the unified theory was God."
On page 59 we see a link between empiricism and skepticism. I think this is interesting because David Hume, in the 18th century, was an empiricist and a skeptic as well. I think the two things go hand in hand. Modern science is closely tied to empiricism, and a certain type of skepticism, too. David Hume, and others like him, have not exactly furthered God's kingdom. As for science, there is a lot of good in science, but it definitely needs a little more humility. It's purported claims upon reality are much more grandiose than what is warranted. In that audio link in the previous post, JP Moreland talks about Hume and his effect upon our modern world.
I'd like to hear any comments anyone has about that. When I know more about my July schedule I'll let you know, and we'll try to set up another meeting.
Happiness
http://www.cmda.org/media/CDD_Interviews/May09CDD_moreland.mp3
In previous posts we have discussed the difference between the ancient and modern understanding of 'happiness.'' The Christian Medical and Dental Associations have the audio of an interview with JP Moreland about that very subject. The link is above. I think the link will work. If not I'll figure out another to get the audio to you. JP Moreland is a Christian philosopher who teaches at the Talbot School of Theology.
In previous posts we have discussed the difference between the ancient and modern understanding of 'happiness.'' The Christian Medical and Dental Associations have the audio of an interview with JP Moreland about that very subject. The link is above. I think the link will work. If not I'll figure out another to get the audio to you. JP Moreland is a Christian philosopher who teaches at the Talbot School of Theology.
I am hoping to be able to have a more flexible schedule at work soon, and I hope that means being able to set up some times when the group can get together. Starting in July I will be working 12 hour shifts instead of 24 hour shifts. I'll have to be at the hospital more days each week, but the schedule is going to vary. My fixed schedule in the past hasn't allowed me to meet at a time when most people can do it. So, stay tuned and we'll see what we can do.
Friday, March 20, 2009
Thanks Cory, I was wondering where we were. Your post reminded me of one of my favorite poems (oh boy here he goes again!). The last two lines are one of my favorites to quote.
Paul
ULYSSES
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
It little profits that an idle king,
By this still hearth, among these barren crags,
Matched with an aged wife, I mete and dole
Unequal laws unto a savage race,
That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me.
I cannot rest from travel; I will drink
life to the lees. All times I have enjoyed
Greatly, have suffered greatly, both with those
that loved me, and alone; on shore, and when
Through scudding drifts the rainy Hyades
Vexed the dim sea. I am become a name;
For always roaming with a hungry heart
Much have I seen and known---cities of men
And manners, climates, councils, governments,
Myself not least, but honored of them all---
And drunk delight of battle with my peers,
Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy.
I am part of all that I have met;
Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough
Gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades
Forever and forever when I move.
How dull it is to pause, to make an end.
To rust unburnished, not to shine in use!
As though to breathe were life! Life piled on life
Were all too little, and of one to me
Little remains; but every hour is saved
From that eternal silence, something more,
A bringer of new things; and vile it were
For some three suns to store and hoard myself,
And this gray spirit yearning in desire
To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.
This is my son, my own Telemachus,
To whom I leave the scepter and the isle---
Well-loved of me, discerning to fulfill
This labor, by slow prudence to make mild
A rugged people, and through soft degrees
Subdue them to the useful and the good.
Most blameless is he, centered in the sphere
Of common duties, decent not to fail
In offices of tenderness, and pay
Meet adoration to my household gods,
When I am gone. He works his work, I mine.
There lies the port; the vessel puffs her sail;
There gloom the dark, broad seas. My mariners,
Souls that have toiled, and wrought, and thought with me---
That ever with a frolic welcome took
The thunder and the sunshine, and opposed
Free hearts, free foreheads---you and I are old;
Old age hath yet his honor and his toil.
Death closes all; but something ere the end,
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
Not unbecoming men that strove with gods.
The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks;
The long day wanes; the slow moon climbs; the deep
Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends.
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
the sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down;
It may be that we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are---
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
1842
Paul
ULYSSES
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
It little profits that an idle king,
By this still hearth, among these barren crags,
Matched with an aged wife, I mete and dole
Unequal laws unto a savage race,
That hoard, and sleep, and feed, and know not me.
I cannot rest from travel; I will drink
life to the lees. All times I have enjoyed
Greatly, have suffered greatly, both with those
that loved me, and alone; on shore, and when
Through scudding drifts the rainy Hyades
Vexed the dim sea. I am become a name;
For always roaming with a hungry heart
Much have I seen and known---cities of men
And manners, climates, councils, governments,
Myself not least, but honored of them all---
And drunk delight of battle with my peers,
Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy.
I am part of all that I have met;
Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough
Gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades
Forever and forever when I move.
How dull it is to pause, to make an end.
To rust unburnished, not to shine in use!
As though to breathe were life! Life piled on life
Were all too little, and of one to me
Little remains; but every hour is saved
From that eternal silence, something more,
A bringer of new things; and vile it were
For some three suns to store and hoard myself,
And this gray spirit yearning in desire
To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.
This is my son, my own Telemachus,
To whom I leave the scepter and the isle---
Well-loved of me, discerning to fulfill
This labor, by slow prudence to make mild
A rugged people, and through soft degrees
Subdue them to the useful and the good.
Most blameless is he, centered in the sphere
Of common duties, decent not to fail
In offices of tenderness, and pay
Meet adoration to my household gods,
When I am gone. He works his work, I mine.
There lies the port; the vessel puffs her sail;
There gloom the dark, broad seas. My mariners,
Souls that have toiled, and wrought, and thought with me---
That ever with a frolic welcome took
The thunder and the sunshine, and opposed
Free hearts, free foreheads---you and I are old;
Old age hath yet his honor and his toil.
Death closes all; but something ere the end,
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
Not unbecoming men that strove with gods.
The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks;
The long day wanes; the slow moon climbs; the deep
Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends.
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
the sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down;
It may be that we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are---
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
1842
The pursuit of happiness outside of God's purpose and plans for our lives is hedonism. It's a life focused completely on maximizing pleasure in all it's facets without regard for God's directions and purpose. Such a life style alienates others and leaves us deeply empty and unfulfilled. Ie, dead! I might share some of these ideas this Sunday when Jesus' life is compared with Adam's life in my resurrecton passage.... hm?? Something to think about.
Chuck
Chuck
Modern or Classical Happiness
It has been a while since I have posted anything, but I haven't forgotten about ithink. I still don't know when to plan on getting together, the calendar is full. But I have been planning on getting back to some posting. Posts from anyone else are welcome, too.
Back on Dec 30 there was a post about Aristotle and the idea of happiness, and how it relates to virtue. I just received a monthly ministry update from a friend who is the western regional director for the Christian Medical and Dental Associations. He spends much of his time touring the western region of the US speaking to physicians, dentists, and students. Recently he spoke about 'The Counter-Intuitive Pursuit of Happiness," and he shared some of this in his letter:
"...And we had a wonderful interactive discussion trying to define and identify modern 'happiness,' it's fleeting yet addictive attributes that create a false self, nurtured only by self-indulging narcissism. Contrast this with classical 'happiness,' which is more enduring, liberating, completely integrated, produced only be self-denying apprenticeships. And you can see the attraction as they had never heard anything like it before.
...We are all so able and apt to justify our sin, not recognizing that our heavenly Father has our best interest at heart. Many resist his principles as they seem so difficult, yet we invite such pain, regret and heartache when we insist on finding 'happiness' in our own way. Fidelity, forgiveness, fortitude, and forthrightness keep us in good stead with each other and with God. Are you hiding and rationalizing something you know to be sin? Share it with a trusted friend who will help you make good choices: an unforgiving heart, constant negative thoughts toward someone, lustful thoughts, an ungrateful spirit, greed, lying or deceit?
The 'happiness' we seek is only to be found in following the principles written in the "operators manual...""
On our recent trip to Colorado, Michal and I listened in the car to a lecture we had heard before about virtue, happiness, and having an abundant life. (Perhaps we are odd, but that's a great way to pass the time.) The lecture, of course, leaned to a pre-modern vs a modern or post-modern perspective. The Greek myth about Ulysses was used as an example of how the ancients viewed life and happiness. At one point in the story Ulysses is trapped on an island by the goddess Calypso. In some ways he had it made. She offered him immortality if he would stay there on the island. He could live forever and have a beautiful goddess share her bed with him. To some people that would seem better than winning the lottery. What could make him 'happier.' Well, Ulysses couldn't stay there because it was killing him. If he could not be who is was, and if he could not fulfill his purpose, even if he lived forever it would be killing him. He was a king, a father, a husband, and a warrior. If he stayed there on the island with Calypso, the man could have lived there forever, but Ulysses would have died. He would not have had an 'abundant life.'
Michal made a great observation at that point. God told Adam to eat from any tree in the garden, except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, "for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die." Adam and Eve ended up eating, and they died. Physically they were alive, but the relationship with God was broken. They couldn't live any longer the way they had been designed to live, they could not fulfill their purpose, and they died. Pursuit of their own definition of happiness had cost them their lives.
Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord, that now we can walk in the Spirit again, and wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. (Romans 7 and 8) We live!
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